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Wednesday, May 31, 2023

New SNAP work requirements, explained

New SNAP work requirements, explained

“Four ways the debt deal could affect who’s eligible for benefits such as SNAP and TANF

Larrilou Carumba, a furloughed housekeeper, pays for groceries using food stamps in Union City, Calif., in May 2020. (Melina Mara/The Washington Post)

The Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2023, which would raise the debt ceiling for the next two years and cut federal spending, is making its way through the House and Senate. If enacted, it will put an end to months of heated debate and political tension over the country’s economic and fiscal future.

A central issue in the standoff has been nutrition assistance programs for many low-income Americans, with Republicans seeking to insert work requirements that the Biden administration opposed.

The agreement, which must be voted on by Congress in the next few days, ultimately would institute new requirements for families who get benefits through the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF).

“If it passes, this plan would be the first major deficit-reducing budget agreement in almost a dozen years and would signal Washington is serious about making progress in addressing our mounting national debt,” said Maya MacGuineas, president of the conservative-leaning Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

But in a twist, these changes could actually make these programs more expensive for the government in the long run, because more people would end up qualifying for aid, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. Federal spending for SNAP and TANF is expected to rise by about $2.1 billion in the next 10 years, the analysis found.

Here are four things to know about the requirements in the proposed debt deal.

1. Older Americans on SNAP would face new work requirements

Current rules for SNAP benefits, which used to be called food stamps, require that adults up to age 49 work or participate in a training program for at least 80 hours a month. There are certain exceptions, though, including for people who are pregnant, have mental or physical limitations, or live with children.

If the deal is passed, the work requirements would apply to a new group: adults without dependents between 50 and 52 starting in October, and adults as old as 54 beginning next fall.

The new requirements could put hundreds of thousands of additional adults at risk of losing food assistance, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a left-leaning think tank.

Many older adults work part-time jobs — as crossing guards, store greeters or seasonal workers, for example — with hours that may not add up to 80 per month, said Ty Jones Cox, vice president of food assistance at CBPP.

“When we look at that older group, especially those with no children in the home and who aren’t eligible for other programs … they may be in jobs where they have had to work with their hands and bodies for years,” making it harder to work into their 50s, Jones Cox said. “These individuals may have a hard time finding another job, retraining or engaging in a new opportunity.”

2. Veterans, the homeless and young adults who recently left foster care will be exempt from SNAP work requirements

But the new legislation would also create new exceptions on exactly who is required to work. Veterans, people experiencing homelessness and adults ages 18 to 24 who were previously in foster care will all be newly exempt from the work requirement.

For the first time ever, Americans who are homeless would not need to meet work requirements to qualify for SNAP benefits, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Marcia L. Fudge said on Twitter. This includes people who are unsheltered, living in shelters or temporarily living in someone else’s home, she said.

As a result, the Congressional Budget Office expects that more people — an additional 78,000 per month, on average — will qualify for SNAP benefits between 2025 and 2030, resulting in $1.8 billion in extra spending.

The extra funding and new exemptions will help some families, who have had to make do after pandemic-era boosts to food stamps ended in March. In Centerville, Va., Heather Thomas has been struggling to make ends meet after her family’s SNAP benefits were cut in half a couple of months ago.

Now, though, the provision for veterans may ward off additional cuts for her family.

Thomas’s husband, Andre, an honorably discharged combat veteran, has been struggling to find work since their small computer business failed in 2016. Thomas, 48, has four kids under 13 in the house, as well as two adult children. She said when her youngest, 6-year-old twins, were babies, she had complications from the pregnancy that rendered her permanently disabled and with ongoing health challenges.

“My husband has been trying to find a job, that’s his only goal,” she said earlier this month, when she worried that more stringent work requirements could put her family in an even more dire position. If the deal passes, Thomas’s family could be among those around the country who benefit.

3. States can still waive work requirements, though there are new wrinkles

States, which can waive work requirements in areas with insufficient jobs, would still be able to do so under the new rules. (An earlier Republican proposal had sought to restrict states’ ability to issue waivers.)

However, there could be some changes to how states dole out exemptions. Under current rules, states are allowed to waive work requirements for a limited number of people. Unused exemptions can be carried over indefinitely by states, which can stockpile them for future years.

Under the bill, though, states would receive fewer monthly exemptions and would be able to carry over unused exemptions for only one year.

4. Enhanced work requirements for TANF benefits in most states

TANF, a program that provides temporary cash for families in need, is also facing potential changes, though the actual impact on recipients will vary by state.

States design their own programs but are required to make sure that at least 50 percent of recipients are working. States can effectively reduce that 50 percent threshold based on how much their caseloads have fallen since 2005. For example, if the number of families receiving benefits has fallen by 20 percent since 2005, then only 30 percent of families would be required to meet work standards.

The new proposal overhauls that framework and sets the comparison year to 2015, instead of 2005. This means more states would have to boost their work requirements accordingly. States would have two years to implement the new rules. They can also lower their work participation requirements by contributing more state funding toward TANF benefits.

As a result, the CBO expects that the federal government would end up paying slightly less to states, because some states would not meet the work requirements. Those changes are expected to shave off $5 million in federal spending over the next decade.

Advocates for low-income families with children say the proposed changes could prompt some states to reduce cash aid to families, in part because “the work participation standards are impossible to meet,” according to LaDonna Pavetti, a senior fellow at CBPP.

“For many people who are homeless or face domestic violence or have a mental health issue, states can exempt them from work requirements,” she said. “But for everyone who is exempted, you need another person who is meeting the work requirements, and because benefits are so low in most states, few working families qualify for assistance.”

Supreme Court Guts Clean Water Act as Conservative Justices Side with Polluters and Developers

Supreme Court Guts Clean Water Act as Conservative Justices Side with Polluters and Developers

“We look at how a new Supreme Court ruling awards a major victory to polluters and land developers. In a 5-4 decision last week, the justices sharply limited the authority of the Environmental Protection Agency to protect and preserve wetlands under the Clean Water Act. The ruling ends protections for about half of all the wetlands in the contiguous United States, jeopardizing access to safe drinking water for millions. “That just defies science, physics, commonsense,” says Earthjustice’s Sam Sankar, who urges Congress to take action to once again protect the country’s critical water resources.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

We turn now to look at another environmental story. In a major decision last week, the U.S. Supreme Court sharply limited the authority of the Environmental Protection Agency to protect and preserve wetlands under the Clean Water Act. It was a 5-to-4 ruling. The justices wrote that the Clean Water Act only applies to wetlands with a, quote, “continuous surface connection” to larger bodies of water, excluding wetlands that are near other bodies of water. The ruling ends protections for about half of all the wetlands in the contiguous United States.

Justice Samuel Alito wrote the majority opinion. He was joined by fellow right-wing Justices John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett. However, conservative Justice Brett Kavanaugh joined the court’s three liberal justices in opposing the weakening of the Clean Water Act. Kavanaugh wrote the decision will have, quote, “significant repercussions for water quality and flood control throughout the United States,” unquote.

The court’s decision is seen as a major victory for polluters and developers. At the White House, Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre criticized the ruling.

PRESS SECRETARY KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: It will jeopardize the sources of clean drinking water for farmers, businesses and millions of Americans. Look, the Clean Water Act is the reason why America’s lakes today are swimmable, why we can fish in our streams and rivers, and why safe drinking water comes out of our taps. So, it was passed, as we all know, by a bipartisan majority in Congress back in 1972. It has since been used by Republican and Democratic administrations alike to protect our nation’s land and water.

AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about the Sackett v. EPA ruling, we’re joined now by Sam Sankar, the senior vice president for programs at Earthjustice, which filed an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in the case on behalf of Native tribes seeking to defend existing water protections.

Can you summarize what the court ruled and the effect it will have on the environment in this country, Sam?

SAM SANKAR: Sure. Thank you for having me.

So, to step back for a moment, the Clean Water Act is one of the most successful environmental laws that we have. Congress passed this law in 1972 because it recognized that the nation’s waterways were deeply in peril. Rivers were on fire. Fish were dying by the millions. And the nation recognized that we had a major problem. So, cast against that backdrop, the Clean Water Act has been a major success. While there’s more to be done, our nation’s waterways are broadly cleaner, our water is safer to drink, and things are better. And wetlands are protected.

So, we are now in a situation where the Supreme Court’s new ruling takes away protections from over half of the nation’s 100 million acres of remaining wetlands. So, the Supreme Court’s ruling says that those wetlands are no longer covered by the federal protections of the Clean Water Act. And that’s going to have tremendous implications for everyone. And that’s because wetlands are a critical source of water for all of us, and they also serve to filter and protect and be part of the ecological fabric of our nation’s waterways.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Sam, could you be more specific about how the court determines the definition of wetlands versus what the Biden administration was saying, this whole issue of the surface connections of wetlands to waters of the United States?

SAM SANKAR: Sure. Several years ago, in an opinion by Justice Scalia, the court — in a minority opinion by Justice Scalia, a group, a small group, of conservatives attempted to argue that the Clean Water Act only protects the wetlands that are connected by surface water to nearby waters. That opinion did not gather a majority of votes of the Supreme Court. Instead, for over 45 years, we’ve had a system in which every presidential administration and Supreme Court opinions have said that it’s not just the waters and the wetlands that are touching the waters; it’s the wetlands that are nearby; it’s the wetlands that are adjacent.

So, the opinion says the adjacent wetlands are really only those that are actually touching the waters. And as Justice Kavanaugh himself recognized, that just defies science, common sense, physics and everyone’s understandings of how wetlands are related to waters.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And what do you see as the next steps for those who want to protect the complete wetlands of the United States?

SAM SANKAR: What we need now is action from Congress, because the court’s opinion, while it expresses significant hostility to our nation’s environmental laws, can be addressed through legislation. Interestingly, when the Supreme Court ruled originally and Congress said originally that adjacent wetlands were protected, there’s been a massive lobbying effort over the last 45 years to weaken those protections. And, in fact, it has entirely failed. Now we can go back to Congress and say, “Do what you need to do to clarify to the Supreme Court that the Clean Water Act protects all our nation’s waters, including the wetlands that our waters depend on for their health.”

AMY GOODMAN: The conservative Supreme Court justices, their records, and what overall the court is going to see in the coming months, the cases you’re most concerned about, Sam?

SAM SANKAR: Well, it’s important to recognize that this Sackett decision is part of a thread of decisions from the Supreme Court. In last year’s —

AMY GOODMAN: And can you explain who Sackett is?

SAM SANKAR: Sure. The Sacketts are a family in Idaho that decided to develop on their property without a permit. They owned an excavation company and were aware of what the law said, but they called in that excavation company to dump an enormous amount of fill on their land. Their neighbors complained and asked the EPA to take a look at the property. And the EPA said, “You know, you a permit for this.” The Sacketts, rather than getting a permit, decided to fight and to go to the Supreme Court.

AMY GOODMAN: Sam Sankar, I want to thank you very much for being with us, Earthjustice’s senior vice president for programs. He’s speaking to us from Santa Fe, New Mexico.“

New Oral History Peers Back at Obama, His Era and the Tradeoffs He Made

New Oral History Peers Back at Obama, His Era and the Tradeoffs He Made

“The first of 470 interviews of Obama administration officials and others involved in the debates of the time offer a fresh inside look at a consequential presidency.

Then-president Barack Obama in 2013. A first set of interviews for a new oral history project on the Obama administration is set to be released on Wednesday.
Doug Mills/The New York Times

By Peter Baker

Peter Baker, who covered the Obama presidency and wrote The New York Times book “Obama: The Call of History,” reported this story from Washington.

WASHINGTON — On a day of high drama at an international climate change conference early in his administration, President Barack Obama confronted a senior Chinese official who offered what the American delegation considered a weak commitment. Mr. Obama dismissed the offer. Not good enough.

The Chinese official erupted. “What do you mean that’s not good enough? Why isn’t that good enough?” he demanded. He referred to a past conversation with John Kerry, then a Democratic senator from Massachusetts. “I talked to Senator Kerry and Senator Kerry said that was good enough.”

Mr. Obama looked at him evenly. “Well,” he replied, “Senator Kerry is not president of the United States.”

That moment of sharp relief, a clash with an intransigent foreign apparatchik by a young American president feeling his own way, comes to life in a new oral history project on the Obama administration released on Wednesday. Six years after Mr. Obama left office, the project by Incite, a social science research institute at Columbia University, has assembled perhaps the most extensive collection of interviews from the era to date.

Researchers interviewed 470 Obama administration veterans, critics, activists and others who were in the thick of major events back then, including Mr. Obama and the first lady, Michelle Obama, amassing a total of 1,100 hours of recordings. Transcripts of the interviews are being released in batches over the next three years, starting with a first set of 17 made public on Wednesday focused on climate change, a central issue then that continues to shape the national debate today.

“There will be hundreds of new insights that come from this study, many of which will change our understanding of the Obama presidency and the period from 2008 to 2016 more generally,” said Peter Bearman, founding director of Incite and the principal investigator for the Obama oral history project.

Mr. Obama shakes hands as he moves through a crowded arena.
Mr. Obama at campaign rally in Jacksonville, Fla., in November 2008. The election of America’s first Black president was a moment of great hope and expectation.Damon Winter/The New York Times

What makes Mr. Obama’s presidency distinctive is the way it resonated around the world in the “Obama moment,” as Evan McCormick, who led the foreign policy part of the project, put it. “One thing that becomes clear in our interviews is that the moment of great hope and expectation ushered in by the election of the first Black president was a global one,” he said.

Oral histories of past presidencies have become valuable resources for historians and researchers in recent decades. The Miller Center at the University of Virginia has conducted such projects going back to Jimmy Carter’s presidency. The Columbia project was organized with the support of the Obama Foundation.

The first tranche of interviews does not include those of the former president, first lady or other major recognizable figures from the Obama era. Instead, it is tightly focused on one issue that the researchers deemed vital to his presidency, a wonk’s feast of policy discussion rather than a broader look at Mr. Obama himself or his overall eight years in power.

Climate Forward  There’s an ongoing crisis — and tons of news. Our newsletter keeps you up to date.

Still, some flavor of his management behind the scenes comes through even in these limited initial interviews. As he sucked down his favorite Fiji water, Mr. Obama would tease scientists and engineers. “I stayed away from you all in school,” he would say. “I’m a lawyer. I don’t like math. I don’t do math.” And when Steven Chu, his Nobel Prize-winning physicist-turned-energy secretary, showed up with 30 slides when five would have sufficed, an exasperated president would say, “Steve, we’ve got it. We’ve got it. We don’t need to look at any more of those.”

The focus on climate change in the first set of interviews also highlighted the larger trade-offs Mr. Obama made between competing priorities. The transcripts make clear, for instance, how he put off major legislative action on climate change in favor of health care at the start of his tenure in 2009, perhaps dooming chances for the sweeping measure he would eventually advocate.

At one point as he was expending all of his influence to pass the Affordable Care Act, he ruefully explained his priorities to Mr. Chu. “Look, I know I said energy and health care, but next year,” he said. “Energy is next.”

Mr. Obama, surrounded by a group of men and women, signs a document on a small wooden desk.
Mr. Obama signing the Affordable Care Act into law in 2010. Interviews reveal how he put off major legislative action on climate change in favor of health care at the start of his tenure in 2009.Doug Mills/The New York Times

By the time he turned his attention to a clean energy plan in the form of a cap-and-trade system that would create market incentives to reduce greenhouse emissions, Mr. Obama’s political capital had been drained. The bill he pushed made it through the House but not the Democratic-controlled Senate.

“With Obama, I was just so absolutely hopeful,” recalled Carol M. Browner, his White House coordinator for energy and climate change policy. “I just felt like, we’re finally here on climate change. And we were. Then the Senate would never take up the bill.”

Mr. Chu, who considered Mr. Obama “an extraordinary president” for putting aside personal politics, nonetheless gave voice to the disappointment of many of his allies that he did not try harder to pressure Congress. In his oral history interview, Mr. Chu compared Mr. Obama with President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was famous for strong-arming lawmakers into passing landmark civil rights laws and the Great Society anti-poverty program.

“He was less connected with Congress than I would have hoped,” Mr. Chu said. At one point in 2012, he recalled asking Mr. Obama if he had seen Steven Spielberg’s movie “Lincoln,” which recounted the moral compromises made to pass the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery. “Now I’m not asking President Obama to do immoral things,” Mr. Chu said. “But to shake down and use the power of the presidency to really garner votes was something I wish he had done more of. He was too much of a gentleman, too standoffish about that.”

After his re-election in 2012, Mr. Obama recommitted to saving the planet from ecological ruin. “Obama came into the second term clearly ready to rock and roll on climate change,” said Todd Stern, his special envoy for climate change at the State Department, who recounted for the Columbia interviewers the painstaking path to the Paris climate accord sealed in 2015, including the scene with the Chinese official. “Obama comes in like gangbusters.”

Mr. Obama looks out into swamp lands next to three park rangers.
Mr. Obama during a tour of Everglades National Park in 2015. After his re-election in 2012, he recommitted to saving the planet from ecological jeopardy.Stephen Crowley/The New York Times

Mr. Obama’s successor, President Donald J. Trump, subsequently pulled the United States out of the Paris accord, but President Biden has rejoined the agreement.

The oral history organizers made a point of interviewing those dissatisfied with Mr. Obama as well, such as Bill McKibben, a longtime environmental activist and writer who helped found 350.org, a global grass-roots organization.

“My impatience with Mr. Obama and many others on this front is that I think they tended to group it,” meaning climate change, “with other problems that they faced and think about it in the same way that they thought about other things, as one item on a checklist,” he said.

“No matter how much I liked him,” Mr. McKibben added, “it was very clear he could care less about any of this stuff at some deep level and wasn’t willing to sacrifice — suffer any political pain in order to raise the issue.”

But his advisers insisted that Mr. Obama did care and said he regretted his early failures. Just before going out to the East Room of the White House in 2015 to announce his Clean Power Plan imposing caps on power plant carbon emissions, he told Gina McCarthy, his Environmental Protection Agency chief and later Mr. Biden’s climate adviser, that he was determined to take action for the sake of his two daughters.

“I promised to do something on climate,” he told her. “I didn’t get it delivered in my first term. And this is so meaningful.”

Peter Baker is the chief White House correspondent and has covered the last five presidents for The Times and The Washington Post. He is the author of seven books, most recently “The Divider: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021,” with Susan Glasser.“

Opinion | Biden’s Age, the Economy and Trump: 11 Skeptical Biden Voters Discuss - The New York Times

Opinion | Biden’s Age, the Economy and Trump: 11 Skeptical Biden Voters Discuss - The New York Times

If you had to describe Joe Biden as an animal,
what animal would you pick?

Opinion
America In Focus

How 11 Skeptical Biden Voters Feel About His Re-Election Bid

"Are Democrats and independents truly souring on President Biden’s re-election bid, as some recent polls suggest, or are they blowing off steam before coming home to back him in 2024? And why do so many of his past supporters, especially younger and nonwhite voters, seem shaky on him now, judging him to be a decent man with good policies but not the leader they want for four more years?

For our latest Times Opinion focus group, we wanted to dig into the ambivalence and skepticism about Mr. Biden and whether it was sufficiently strong to cause some voters to flip to a Republican or third-party candidate in 2024 (or to forgo casting a ballot entirely). We convened a cross-section of 11 Americans who voted for him in 2020 and may be leaning toward or against him but haven’t firmly decided for 2024.

We tried to get creative with some of our questions — “If you were to describe the state of America as a weather forecast, what would it be?” — along with probing how Mr. Biden aligned with what these voters want most. Perhaps the most surprising answers came when we asked the 11 if they saw Mr. Biden as a strong leader and as someone who shared their values.

If anything, this focus group underscored that Mr. Biden has vulnerabilities and that at least some Democrats and independents are open to other Democrats challenging him for the nomination. But therein lies a danger: If he is a relatively weak candidate for re-election in the eyes of his own party, a Democrat who challenges him could be blamed if he ends up a bruised, even weaker nominee who goes on to lose in the general election.

For now, many of these 11 voters seemed inclined to back him as the lesser of two evils — a phrase we heard time and again during the conversation. Donnia, a 62-year-old Black independent from Illinois, said of Mr. Biden, “I think he may be slow and a camel and a sloth and all of that, but I think that he would be the better option than Trump or DeSantis — the G.O.P., period.”

Patrick Healy, Kristen Soltis Anderson and Adrian J. Rivera

Mr. Healy is the deputy Opinion editor. Ms. Soltis Anderson is a pollster. Mr. Rivera is an editorial assistant in Opinion.

Participants

Chris 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

Claudia 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

Donnia 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

Jahnique 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Ken 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

Marquita 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Max 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

Milan 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

Nick 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Sana 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

Vikranth 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

Transcript

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

If you were giving the weather forecast for how things are going in America, what would you say?

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

Icy, stormy. I think we’re headed in the wrong direction.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

Cloudy with a chance of tick, tick, boom. I think there’s going to be an outer force of danger that is going to unite us, kind of like 9/11 did. The pendulum has to swing the other way.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

My forecast is very cloudy with a chance of a heavy downpour and maybe a tornado.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

What’s the tornado?

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

The rising prices of everything, from food to gas to oil.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

Gloomy.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

I would use the same descriptions that everyone else did. But even with things that caused a big uproar, like the court ruling around abortion, I feel like everything’s been pretty stagnant over the last four years.

Max, 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

Scattered showers. But I do feel like people have a tendency to think that everything is bad at a given time. History has been a lot worse. I think we’re due for some clear weather at some time soon.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Is there something making you feel optimistic or hopeful?

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Our parents and previous generations have a kind of a hush-hush attitude with conflicts within either the community or the country. But now we are able to speak on it and call things out and have an open dialogue.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

I agree with Jahnique. Open dialogue has gotten a lot better. I’m also optimistic about artificial intelligence.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

If everybody’s being pushed so far left or right on all these issues, maybe there’ll start to be a resurgence of people in the middle and more of a common understanding.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Right, the level of the country’s consciousness has grown. We are more aware of how our actions and behaviors affect each other. That doesn’t mean we always make the right decisions, but if we have more people being more conscious about how we affect each other, that can inform our future decisions and behaviors. We now have a very clear picture of how we affect our environment, for example.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

What is one word you would use to describe how you feel about the November 2024 presidential election?

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

Is “[EXPLETIVE] show” one word or two? How about “circus”?

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

Anxious.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

Apprehensive.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

“Scared,” I think.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Unforgettable.

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

Scary.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

Eager.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Confused.

Max, 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

Geriatric.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

“South Park” episode.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

Defeated.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Chris, you said “apprehensive.”

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

Just not sure what to expect. Is Biden going to run again? He’s very old and showing signs of not being all there. Trump? I just have no idea why these guys in their mid- to late 70s would want to be president of the United States. Just go off and retire somewhere. I’m not even 55, and I can’t wait to retire. I don’t know what these guys are thinking.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Donnia, you said “defeated.”

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

With the current candidates that we have, I don’t think that anyone is really interested in solving the problems of our country.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Milan, you said “circus.”

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

Democrats have decided that Joe Biden’s the only candidate. On the other side, they seem to be trying to one-up each other on every conservative issue possible. It’s insane between Trump and DeSantis. Even my own governor in New Hampshire, Sununu, who’s seemed relatively normal, is starting to pick up culture war issues. For what reason? He’s not going to ever have a chance.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Nick, what did you mean by “‘South Park’ episode”?

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Yeah, there was an episode in “South Park” from 2004 where there was a mock election and everybody ends up having to vote for the lesser of two evils. They’re voting just to keep someone else out. I hate that that becomes the scenario. I’ve committed to vote for a third party this coming election.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

It is possible, even likely, that the 2024 election will be a rematch between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. How would you feel about that?

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Like Nick said, it would basically be just choosing the lesser of two evils. I think that is a direct consequence of the two-party system. You have no choice. You can either vote for one or the other or you can not make your voice heard by picking a third party.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

I think a rematch would cause a lot of people to disengage from the process altogether. You’ll have a lot of people questioning our democracy or democracy as a whole. There’s going to be a lot of people who, if we had good candidates, would go out and vote who, this time around, just don’t really care. No matter who wins, it’s going to feed into a lot of extremist views. It is going to add fuel to the flames or the fire of what we saw for the last eight years. Nobody is really satisfied. There’s a lot of discontent. And so I think that we’ll see that get worse under either of their presidencies.

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

I feel like all progressives, in general, have been left behind by the Democratic Party and definitely by the Republican Party. We just would like to see the country move forward and not be regressive on social values or have a side of corporatism. That’s all we have, it seems.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Some of you have mentioned a third party. What would make you consider voting for a third-party candidate? Is there anybody that you’ve seen out there who you think, “Gosh, if they ran third party, that would make me excited”?

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Someone that just ran with any sort of rational stance on these major issues, I would vote for.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

I’d only vote for a third party if I had assurances that there would be enough votes for that person to win. I’d be interested in someone younger. My top five issues are clean water, clean air, education, tolerance of other views and overall respect and tolerance for other people.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

You are all in this group because you voted for Joe Biden in 2020. That does not mean that you love what he’s done or that you support him now. It just means you voted for him in 2020. So why did you vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 election?

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

It really was the lesser of two evils. It felt like the only thing I could do.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I just couldn’t stomach Trump.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I hate to say it, but pretty much the same reason.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I didn’t vote for Biden. I voted against Trump.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

This time, I want you to choose an animal that best describes Joe Biden. If you had to describe Joe Biden as an animal, what animal would you pick?

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

A snail.

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

A sloth.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

Dinosaur, just because he was trying to bring back old politics — not because of his age.

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

A meerkat. Anytime it’s nice out, his head’s up, and then as soon as something goes wrong, he’s just gone again.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

An elephant, because they live very long and they have really strong memories.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Goldfish, just because he doesn’t seem to have an attention span to focus on anything.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

A camel — the way he talks, I see the camel’s mouth moving.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I was going to say a dinosaur as well.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

A turtle.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

A hippopotamus. A lot of them are very violent, and a lot of them are very dangerous. They have old ways of doing things that may not always be the best course of action, like how Biden is, and they can get dangerous if they deem it necessary

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Sana, you said “sloth.”

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

Because he’s slow, honestly. There’s been many times where he’s just forgotten things. He’s been caught so many times on camera with just mumbo jumbo coming out of his mouth.

Do you agree with the following statements?
Joe Biden has integrity.
Chris, 54, white, Dem., teacher
Jahnique, 28, Black, Dem., loan processor
Milan, 39, Asian, ind., software developer
Vikranth, 22, Asian, Dem., medical scribe
Joe Biden is intelligent.
Donnia, 62, Black, ind., not working
Jahnique, 28, Black, Dem., loan processor
Marquita, 33, Black, Dem., health care account manager
Milan, 39, Asian, ind., software developer
Joe Biden is a strong leader. No one raised their hand.
Joe Biden understands average Americans.
Claudia, 28, Latina, ind., credit portfolio manager
Ken, 47, Latino, ind., software developer
Sana, 22, Asian, Dem., not working
Vikranth, 22, Asian, Dem., medical scribe
Joe Biden shares my values. No one raised their hand.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Why don’t you think Joe Biden shares your values?

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I just feel like politicians align with what most of the country believes. So really, I can’t be sure what any politician’s real, true values are.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I think Biden is a corporate elitist-type person that camouflages himself as a regular guy.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Nobody here thought Joe Biden is a strong leader. Why?

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I’ve just seen so many clips of him stumbling, physically and with his words. I think the pressure of the job and his age has just gotten to him at this point.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

If Republicans and Democrats don’t agree on certain values, we can all agree that Barack Obama was a well-spoken individual. People rallied for him a lot because of the way he spoke. And I think that’s something that a leader needs and what a president needs. I don’t think Joe Biden can do that.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

How do you think Joe Biden has performed as president, relative to your expectations when we had the 2020 election?

Has he done better than you expected,
worse or about the same?
Better No one raised their hand.
About the same
Claudia, 28, Latina, ind., credit portfolio manager
Donnia, 62, Black, ind., not working
Jahnique, 28, Black, Dem., loan processor
Marquita, 33, Black, Dem., health care account manager
Max, 30, white, ind., camera operator
Milan, 39, Asian, ind., software developer
Sana, 22, Asian, Dem., not working
Vikranth, 22, Asian, Dem., medical scribe
Worse
Chris, 54, white, Dem., teacher
Ken, 47, Latino, ind., software developer
Nick, 37, white, ind., business manager

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

I honestly didn’t expect too much to get done. He did pass the Inflation Reduction Act. And then not a whole lot since, because it’s hard to get things done in the Senate, and then he lost the House.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Very similar to that, I didn’t have very high expectations for him. I knew that he was going to dampen some of the tension that was going on in the country. And I think that he has done that. I just didn’t want it to get worse, and I can’t say it’s worse than it was before.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Is that necessarily enough to earn your vote the next time around?

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

No. That’s why I’m undecided. But if there’s a candidate that I think is going to make things worse, then maybe.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

One of the things I disliked about Trump was I felt he was an embarrassment for how he handled himself. And I hoped Biden would represent better. But now I feel embarrassed for how Biden represents our country to the rest of the world.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I expected Biden to be more of a leader, since he’s a career politician, to be able to reach more across the aisle and bring more people to his camp so that he would be able to accomplish more. I think that he’s failed in that regard.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

When President Biden recently announced that he is going to run for re-election, did any of you have positive reactions to that?

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I think that that calms me a little bit, more than if Trump were to be president again. I’ll take four more years of Biden than to have what America stands for be taken away. I’ll take four more years of Biden in exchange for democracy continuing and the Constitution being our backbone.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I was hoping that he would not announce that he was running again. I was hoping for a new phase. But having said that, if it’s between him and Trump, I would vote for Joe Biden again.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

President Biden also announced that Vice President Kamala Harris will be on his ticket as his running mate for 2024. How do you feel about his decision to run with Harris as his vice president again?

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

Who? I didn’t know he had a vice president.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Vice presidents don’t really have official jobs. They’re just like presidents in waiting, essentially. So stick with what worked, I guess, is his approach. She’s an ornament, like just about all vice presidents are. She’s a nice ornament.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

I think that it’s a smart move on his part. It legitimizes his campaign. He needs the female vote. He needs the people of color vote. I think that it’s the best thing for him to do to stand a chance at really winning. But I do wonder if part of why he is running again is to provide Kamala a nice pathway to the presidency. She would never win in an actual election. So just strategically speaking, it makes sense. But it doesn’t make me feel any more optimistic about the job that either of them will do, because the only things we’ve heard about Kamala during the presidency have been unfavorable.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

If you had to guess, just on the spot, how old is President Biden?

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

80-something.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

I would say 84?

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

I think he’s 79.

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

78.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I think he’s 80? 82? I don’t know.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I thought he was 86.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I’d say about 79 — 79, sorry.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

80.

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

I’m going to go with 79 as well. I think it’s around there.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

I think he’s 81 this year, I think.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

He is 80. Does the number matter, or is it more the performance? How do you see the age point?

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I feel like the older you get, the more stuck in your ways you are. He knows how it was years ago, whereas now he doesn’t really know what, I guess, the younger generation really cares about or really wants. And it doesn’t matter how many briefings he gets.

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

I agree with Claudia. And going back to what Vik said previously — Biden was Obama’s vice president for eight years, and it’s almost like, “You didn’t learn a couple of things?”

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Does anyone feel the focus on age or maybe criticism that might be age related is unfair?

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

As humans, we can say, “Hey, if you make a mistake or two, it’s OK.” Everyone understands. But this is the presidency. This is the most powerful person in the country and what everyone around the world sees. After countless mistakes, you’re going to get criticism.

Do you think Joe Biden’s up to the task of being
president through the year 2028? 
0 people raised their hands.

Chris, 54, white, Dem., teacher

Claudia, 28, Latina, ind., credit portfolio manager

Donnia, 62, Black, ind., not working

Jahnique, 28, Black, Dem., loan processor

Ken, 47, Latino, ind., software developer

Marquita, 33, Black, Dem., health care account manager

Max, 30, white, ind., camera operator

Milan, 39, Asian, ind., software developer

Nick, 37, white, ind., business manager

Sana, 22, Asian, Dem., not working

Vikranth, 22, Asian, Dem., medical scribe

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I don’t know what to think. I think that his age — he may not make it. I could be wrong.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

All presidents are just a figurehead. And I don’t believe he’s running too much of the government right now. I believe everybody underneath him is giving him advice and running things, so to speak. But the guy is 80 years old. His cognitive decline has been pretty evident the last two years, that we’ve seen, and I just see it getting worse.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Chris, none of us, I think, are medical doctors. What do you really mean by “cognitive decline”?

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I’ve just seen the blank stare at times, when he’s either giving a speech or addressing a crowd. It seems like he loses his train of thought. And my own father is 84, and he’s got early-onset dementia. And you can tell him something five times within a span of half an hour, and he’ll keep asking you the same thing over and over again.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I’ve seen before and after pictures of a lot of presidents. The amount of white hair that Obama got, that multiple presidents get. You’re under so much stress, there’s no way that a person can handle that at such an older age.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Some critics of President Biden say he’s too closely tied to activity connected to his son, Hunter Biden, who has been caught up in a variety of alleged controversies or real controversies. The supporters say that President Biden is right to love and support his son, as their family’s been through a lot and it isn’t fair to drag his son into attacks on him as president. Which side do you think you tend to agree with more when it comes to President Biden and Hunter Biden?

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

You can raise your child right. But at the end of the day, they’re going to choose their own path. And obviously, there have been periods in his son’s life where he’s lost his way. And considering Hunter’s history — he’s the last remaining child between him and his first wife — it must have been a very, very traumatic time for him, and I’m guessing that plays a role in the choices that he’s made. I think that there have been periods where he has lost his way. And as far as his choices, those are his choices. If his father knew and was either advising or involved in that, then obviously, that should be investigated. But again, I think that Hunter Biden is a man who makes decisions. They’re not always the right decisions, but he makes his own decision and is his own man.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

I have some shady family members, and I wouldn’t want to align myself with them if I was doing a job like this. On certain levels, being an enabler is just as damaging as being the person that’s actually doing it.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

Prosecuting your child is one thing, but Biden is holding the highest position in the country. And that means that if your son is guilty of things that could jeopardize his position, I would have to separate myself from my child in terms of what’s right and what’s wrong.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

What are the things President Biden has done or the issues that he has handled that you have been the happiest about?

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Man, I’d have to think about this one for a little bit.

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

I also need a second to think about it.

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Student loan forgiveness is something that is going to benefit me and almost every adult that I know. And so I think that that’s a good hill to die on.

Milan, 39, N.H., Asian, independent, software developer

I was going to say student loan forgiveness as well. But my next one will be not backing down over the debt ceiling and gutting a lot of the social services and things for veterans out there that Republicans apparently want to cut.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

Infrastructure spending. I think we need a lot of that. I don’t think he did enough, but at least he did something.

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

What about the flip side of this question? What are some issues where maybe he hasn’t done a very good job, or what’s something that he has done that has frustrated you?

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Climate change. He sold us the dream about the whole climate change situation, and then he approved that project in Alaska for oil. He’s doing things to say that he’s followed through with this plan, but he’s not actually executing his promises, in my opinion.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I’d say two things. The first is probably giving too much money to the war in Ukraine. And the second thing is when the oil prices skyrocketed, I don’t think he opened up the reserves soon enough.

Max, 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

I wish that he was able to protect women’s health and abortion rights more. And I don’t know if that necessarily was his fault or if he could have done more.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I’m disappointed about the border. I’m originally from Texas, and I’m not saying, “Build the wall.” That was ridiculous. But I do think that the border issue is something that is going to affect us, going forward. Here, in Illinois and Chicago, they’ve been busing a lot of immigrants — or refugees, I can call them, because they’re fleeing something — to this area. I don’t know that we’re getting any help, and it’s depleting a lot of our resources. So I think he needs to do more towards immigration issues.

Do you approve of how Joe Biden
has handled the economy? 
0 people raised their hands.

Chris, 54, white, Dem., teacher

Claudia, 28, Latina, ind., credit portfolio manager

Donnia, 62, Black, ind., not working

Jahnique, 28, Black, Dem., loan processor

Ken, 47, Latino, ind., software developer

Marquita, 33, Black, Dem., health care account manager

Max, 30, white, ind., camera operator

Milan, 39, Asian, ind., software developer

Nick, 37, white, ind., business manager

Sana, 22, Asian, Dem., not working

Vikranth, 22, Asian, Dem., medical scribe

Sana, 22, Ill., Asian, Democrat, not working

I know inflation is not his fault, but because he is the leader of the country, I wish he would do something.

Nick, 37, Iowa, white, independent, business manager

There’s not enough being done to help shoulder some of these increases. When you see these other companies posting record profits, that’s concerning to me. Continuing to line the pockets of the elite while everyone else is struggling is not OK.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Let’s talk about the debt ceiling. A lot of us are spooked by the word “default.” And right now, House Republicans and President Biden are debating government spending and what to do about the debt, which has grown quite high. How much, if at all, do you care about these issues — the question of the debt and the debt ceiling and how the government spends its money?

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

The whole staring contest is so elementary. We don’t want to default, because it’s going to be very embarrassing for the country and it would have a huge effect around the world. I believe that the debt ceiling is a single issue that needs to be addressed and not trying to tie it to other things. Government spending is a part of the budgetary or political calendar.

Chris, 54, Pa., white, Democrat, teacher

I think we all need to be fiscally responsible. If our government’s not going to be fiscally responsible and run up a huge debt and say, “Oh, it’s OK not to pay it off,” or fail to raise taxes to help pay it off, that’s obviously not a good thing. And the gridlock between the House and the Senate needs to stop. It can’t be all Biden. He needs some help, obviously.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Everyone has been pretty tough in terms of how you see Biden, and maybe I’d go so far as to say down on Biden. But I do wonder, in the end, if you’re going to vote for him.

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

Yes, I would vote for him again.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

And you’d be voting for him or against the Republicans, do you think?

Ken, 47, Fla., Latino, independent, software developer

I would say both. Both are valid for me.

Max, 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

Yeah. I think that the people on the right are just so far right that — I don’t know. I feel like I’m just trying to vote for someone who’s more in the center, and that would be Biden, even though that’s not who I really want to vote for. But so, yes, I would, and I will do it, unfortunately.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I’d definitely be voting against Trump or DeSantis. So if those really are my choices, then, again, just the lesser of two evils.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Claudia, is there a way Biden could become not the lesser of two evils but someone who you’d feel like, “OK, I’m going to vote for this guy and not just against the other guys”?

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

I don’t think so, at this point, because it’s not like he’s coming in fresh. He’s had four years. So we’ve already seen what he can do or the lack of what he’s done.

Vikranth, 22, N.J., Asian, Democrat, medical scribe

I definitely agree with everyone else.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Is there anyone who thinks Biden has disappointed you enough that you might not bother voting in 2024 for president?

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

Yeah, I think the only way that I would happily vote for Biden is if DeSantis ran against him. I live in Florida, so I have a lot of visibility into how he works, and I absolutely don’t want him to be the president. If it were a Biden versus Trump, I just wouldn’t vote. I think that if the last eight years have shown me anything, it’s really that the votes don’t matter as much as we would like to think they do. Is Biden horrible? He’s not great. Is Trump horrible? He’s not great. But I do think that Trump is a businessman, and if anybody can make decisions that could improve the economy, between Biden and Trump, I think that Trump will be the one to do it. So if it came down to something like that, I would just let the chips fall. I would save my energy.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Marquita, do you regret voting for Biden in 2020 instead of voting for Trump?

Marquita, 33, Fla., Black, Democrat, health care account manager

No. I disagree with Trump on almost all social issues, but I tend to be a bit more conservative financially. We would have been too vulnerable on the world stage if Trump would have been elected again. So that’s not to say that I feel safe with Trump at the helm.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I would never not vote. I would vote for Biden again versus the G.O.P., just because I don’t even know what they stand for anymore. I think he may be slow and a camel and a sloth and all of that, but I think that he would be the better option than Trump or DeSantis — the G.O.P., period.

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Are there other Democrats that people really like?

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

Gavin Newsom in California.

Jahnique, 28, Del., Black, Democrat, loan processor

Conor Lamb, I think from Pennsylvania?

Moderator, Patrick Healy

Is there anyone who regrets voting for Biden in 2020, given the choices that you had? [No one raised a hand.]

Moderator, Kristen Soltis Anderson

Earlier in this focus group when we asked, “Do you think Joe Biden is a strong leader?” no one said yes. When we asked, “Does he share your values?” no one really said yes. When we said, “Do you think he’s up to the task of being president in 2028?” no one said yes. And yet most of you say you’re probably going to vote for him in 2024. You all are the sorts of voters that Republicans should be trying to win over to say, “Hey, don’t we need a change?” What would Republicans have to do to win your vote?

Max, 30, N.H., white, independent, camera operator

Just have someone come more into the center and not be so far right. The social issues are really the biggest thing. Financially, I’m pretty in the middle, but socially, I just can’t vote for Republicans, based on the people who are running and how they feel about certain things.

Claudia, 28, Fla., Latina, independent, credit portfolio manager

To echo the same thing as Max, when I think of somebody that I would vote for that was Republican, it’s like Mitt Romney or McCain. Those are the type of politicians in the middle that I would be OK with.

Donnia, 62, Ill., Black, independent, not working

I could vote Republican if they cut the evangelical portion away from it. Get out of people’s moral lives and choices."

Opinion | Biden’s Age, the Economy and Trump: 11 Skeptical Biden Voters Discuss - The New York Times